[HamWAN PSDR] 1.2GHz to Paine [was: 44.x.x.x HamWAN network at Paine]

Dean Gibson AE7Q hamwan at ae7q.com
Mon May 26 10:11:51 PDT 2014


I'm presuming that you are PINGing the gateway (10.0.0.1), which in 
normal circumstances will respond to PINGs, but I thought I'd ask ...

On 2014-05-26 09:01, Dean Gibson AE7Q wrote:
> Ah, I'd like the IP address you are PINGing.  What do you type after 
> the command "ping"?
>
> On 2014-05-25 10:22, Bob wrote:
>>
>> The router is setup as follows:
>>
>> IP: 10.136.19.168
>>
>> Sub Mask: 255.0.0.0
>>
>> Gateway: 10.0.0.1
>>
>> DNS: 10.0.0.2
>>
>> Alt: 10.0.0.1
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> *From:*PSDR [mailto:psdr-bounces at hamwan.org] *On Behalf Of *Dean 
>> Gibson AE7Q
>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 24, 2014 9:33 PM
>> *To:* Puget Sound Data Ring
>> *Subject:* Re: [HamWAN PSDR] 1.2GHz to Paine [was: 44.x.x.x HamWAN 
>> network at Paine]
>>
>> When you attempt to ping using the K7LWH/DD module, what IP address 
>> do you specify?
>>
>> On 2014-05-24 14:36, Bob wrote:
>>
>>     Dean,
>>
>>     Here are some observations and conclusion that I have come up
>>     with in adding the ID-1 to the Kirkland Emergency Communications
>>     Team's tool box.  I have done a number of tests of the ID-1 from
>>     various locations in Kirkland in both the Digital Data (DD) mode
>>     and the Digital Voice (DV) mode.  I tested simplex paths (ID-1 to
>>     ID-1) and paths to the Lake Washington Ham Club (LWHC) DSTAR DV
>>     repeater and DD gateway nodes in Bellevue.
>>
>>     1.There are a few locations in Kirkland that have direct visual
>>     line of site to LWHC Gateway in Belleview.  From those locations,
>>     pings are consistently returned in 100 to 200ms with an
>>     occasional loss.
>>
>>     2.We have two location (Stations 22 and 25) are not visual but
>>     according to Radio Mobile modeling skim the terrain.  At these
>>     sights no ping are returned.
>>
>>     3.At my home QTH (Lat: 47.694 Lon: -122.2161) I do not have a
>>     visual of the LWHC Gateway, but I get occasional pings returned.
>>
>>     4.John Hays loan me a 1.23 GHz directional antenna. With the
>>     directional antenna I detected two paths to the gateway. One was
>>     off a condo about 180 degrees from the gateway about a mile away;
>>     the other was off the NOAA building four miles awat at Sand Point
>>     about 15 degrees clockwise from the gateway.  This indicates the
>>     presents of multi-paths that could be interfering with the data
>>     even with good signal strength.
>>
>>     5.I will also confirm the DV mode is more robust than the DD
>>     mode, but it too is affect by multi-path.
>>
>>     About 2 weeks ago I brought the ID-1 on line to serve as an
>>     alternate path to the Winlink CMS.
>>
>>     Bob -- KE7JL
>>
>>
>>
>>     *From:*PSDR [mailto:psdr-bounces at hamwan.org] *On Behalf Of *Dean
>>     Gibson AE7Q
>>     *Sent:* Saturday, May 24, 2014 10:20 AM
>>     *To:* Puget Sound Data Ring
>>     *Subject:* [HamWAN PSDR] 1.2GHz to Paine [was: 44.x.x.x HamWAN
>>     network at Paine]
>>
>>     Scott Honaker and I have moved forward on this project:
>>
>>      1. We have installed a gateway (Linksys BEFSR41) between the
>>         ID-1 and the internal ARES/RACES subnet (not 44.x.x.x) of the
>>         DEM.
>>      2. We have installed a Digi "AnywhereUSB" box to give us remote
>>         access to the ID-1's USB port, and thus remote control of the
>>         ID-1 radio.  This not only allows multiple use of the ID-1
>>         (which has useful 1.2GHz FM and digital voice modes as well
>>         as Ethernet data), but provides for remote frequency agility
>>         and a diagnostic capability.  This works beautifully (eg, to
>>         search for and use a low-noise frequency)!
>>
>>     Unfortunately, what does not work very well, is the RF portion of
>>     the connection.  PINGs failed at a rate of over 99% when using
>>     the 1.2GHz antenna at the 70 ft level on the tower, so we swapped
>>     the antenna with the one used for the Icom 1.2GHz repeater (which
>>     wasn't seeing any action anyway) at 100 ft.  That made a
>>     "dramatic" improvement, as PINGs now only fail at a 98% rate
>>     (depends upon the time of day, etc)!
>>
>>     Antenna comparison between 1.2GHz and 5.9 GHz for the two sites:
>>
>>      1. On 1.2GHz, both antennas are omni-directional.
>>      2. At the DEM, the 1.2GHz antenna is now at the 100' level,
>>         whereas the 5.9GHz antenna is at 150'.
>>      3. At my home, the 1.2GHz antenna is about 10' above the 5.9GHz
>>         antenna, and it's on the same line-of-sight path.
>>
>>     Note that voice communication between the two sites using the two
>>     ID-1 radios, is fine (there is a slight bit of noise on FM).
>>
>>     The big difference, in my opinion?  I'll bet that the wireless
>>     protocol used by the MikroTik radios includes an aggressive error
>>     correction and retry protocol, whereas the ID-1 is like a piece
>>     of Ethernet cable, and thus relies on the standard TCP/IP retry
>>     mechanism.  The TCP/IP protocols, while "unreliable" in the
>>     technical sense of the term, require a higher overall reliability
>>     than a typical raw wireless connection.
>>
>>     What this says (and I'm a bit surprised to note this), is that
>>     sites considering using ID-1 radios for data communications, may
>>     find that even with the tighter siting requirements of 5.9GHz,
>>     that the latter may be more successful (whether or not part of
>>     HamWAN).  In addition to being a lower-cost radio with a much
>>     higher data rate, the MikroTik radios offer a built-in router,
>>     which can obviate the need for a separate router.
>>
>>     -- Dean
>>
>>     ps: The callsign and digital code filtering features of D-Star
>>     that we previously discussed, are not available (greyed out in
>>     the software) for digital *data* mode.  Huh?  Another fine
>>     example of software of the "seven last words" of poor program
>>     design: *"Why would you want to do that?"*
>>
>>
>>
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