[HamWAN PSDR] Madison Park Seattle HAMwan node?

Wed Oct 4 12:07:30 PDT 2017

Hi Carl,
Thanks for the thoughtful and thoroughly useful reply.  It's great to see
your setup and learn what specific gear you used and to hear how it's
working.  I'm sure I will need to adjust my expectations as I learn
what hamwan is and is not capable of doing.
Cheers, Bob Edmiston KG7UCL

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 8:09 AM, Carl <carl at n7kuw.com> wrote:

> Was out of town for a few days when this thread was active. Am back now
> and able to comment/contribute.
>
>
>
> This is the dish I bought and installed at my home. It is working very
> well on a 23 mile shot to Gold Mountain. This is the dish only, see below
> for radio/modem.
>
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MG4UDAA/ref=oh_aui_
> detailpage_o04_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>
>
>
> This is the Mikrotik radio/modem/router that I purchased, which is
> designed specifically to work with the above dish (or vice-versa?).
>
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GA0DMDQ/ref=oh_aui_
> detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>
>
>
> You will also need some length of outdoor/waterproof Cat5 network cable,
> as well as the ability to power the dish (a power-over-ethernet adapter can
> power the radio from 12 volt supply, you’ll need to build or buy a power
> cord for it).
>
>
>
> The attached photograph is my complete installation, including the
> mounting pipe (set in 60 pounds of cement).
>
>
>
> It is important to note a few things:
>
> 1.       Follow the installation/setup instructions for programming the
> router exactly. The slightest single character typo can result in it not
> working (won’t hurt it, just won’t work). There are some very smart people
> who can help you with that if you do make a mistake (I’m not among that
> group – I needed help).
>
> 2.       Alignment of the dish is precise. Adjustment of a small fraction
> of an inch can take it from a good signal to no signal (the longer the
> shot, the more true). I have literally spent hours fine tuning my dish for
> as good a signal as I can get. I learned to leave it alone after a couple
> of futile attempts to improve it.
>
> 3.       A solid mount is essential. For disaster response, having a
> portable tripod mount would probably be necessary, but it needs to be
> strong enough to be rigid, and you need the ability to emplace it solidly
> so it can’t move.
>
> 4.       Nothing (absolutely nothing) can be blocking the line of sight
> to/from the dish.  A tree limb or leaves is enough to block your signal.
>
> 5.       Dish needs to be positioned such that nobody should be able to
> walk/stand in front of it for two reasons. First, it would block the
> signal. Second, it exposes them unnecessarily to 5.8 GHz rf emissions (like
> being in a directed microwave oven, but much lower power).
>
> 6.       You can buy single polarity and dual polarity dishes and radios.
> You probably want dual polarity. If you are shooting at a site that has a
> dual polarity sector panel, the dual-pol dish should give you better
> signal/bandwidth.  The dish and radio linked above are dual.
>
> 7.       Using an elevation profile on Google Earth can help you
> determine if you really do have line of sight. The attached Haystack Path
> illustration shows the path from my house to Haystack, and if you look
> close there is a ridgeline a very short distance east of my house along
> that path. The ridge has a ground elevation of 486 feet, and I’m at about
> 445 feet, so I would need to have my dish 41 feet above ground elevation at
> my house to use that path (if there was nothing on the ridgeline like a
> tree, building or house that blocked the path, which there is).  Thus, I do
> not have LOS to Haystack even though I’ve got a 40 foot tower in my back
> yard. The Gold Path picture shows I do (or at least should) have a path to
> Gold Mountain. I do, just barely, have a peak-a-boo view because of trees
> and houses around me that block most of the possibilities. The location of
> my dish is the ONLY location on my property that works, and that is about a
> foot in any direction amount of space where I can put the dish.
>
>
>
> Lastly, with regard to your specific interest – support of a hub – you
> also need to consider the larger issue of what may or may not be available
> in a true disaster situation.  While HamWAN is pretty robust, there is no
> assurance that any particular sight would remain intact. If you only have a
> shot to one location (such as Haystack), and the sector panel you are
> aiming at is mis-aligned or damaged from an earthquake, you don’t have
> connection.  Also, if HamWAN were to be isolated from the internet (a
> possibility), then you would only have connectivity to some local servers
> specifically installed to support emergency management, and there is not
> yet any established plan or policy on how those would be managed, who would
> have access to them, or even how they would actually be used.  Most likely
> they would not respond to normal web-browser or email client type
> applications.  So while I do agree fully with your idea/plan to get a dish,
> set it up, get it working, and gain experience with it (that’s part of what
> ham radio is all about), I caution you to set realistic expectations on
> what you may accomplish with it in a true emergency or disaster situation.
> If it will work for you in that scenario, it could be a powerful addition
> to your “toolbox” of communication resources.
>
>
>
> Carl, N7KUW
>
> Seattle ACS
>
>
>
> *From:* PSDR [mailto:psdr-bounces at hamwan.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert
> Edmiston
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 3, 2017 2:34 PM
> *To:* Puget Sound Data Ring
> *Subject:* Re: [HamWAN PSDR] Madison Park Seattle HAMwan node?
>
>
>
> Right, I just checked my canceled order, it was for the LHG-HP5, not the
> US version.  I look forward to hearing how it performs once we can get our
> paws on one.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 2:29 PM, Tom Hayward <tom at tomh.us> wrote:
>
> Note that the LHG-HP5-US is not on the list, but the RBLHG-5nD is. You can
> see the differences in the datasheet:
>
> https://www.streakwave.com/mmSWAVE1/Video/LHG_hp5xl.pdf
>
> The reason it's not on the list is because no one has had a chance to test
> it because it's not available yet. Once it's available someone will need to
> try it to see if it works. With other models, the -US versions have been
> locked out of the ham band and not usable with HamWAN. This would be my
> primary concern.
>
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 2:18 PM, Robert Edmiston <kg7ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Correction.  My order with Streakwave for the super lightweight LHG-HP5-US
> dish was canceled because, according to them, it's new and won't be in
> stock until early 2018. So, I had to go with the heavier and 3x more
> expensive RB911G5HPnDQRT square flat antenna/router combo.   Both were on
> the recommended hardware lists so I expect it'll work just as well.  After
> a successful proof of function, I will likely order the lightweight dish
> anyhow.  I could have ordered it from Latvia, but shipping is $35 and a
> money wire transfer comes with another $35 fee and who knows how long it
> would take to arrive.  I expect to be ready to try out a test in a week.
>
> Cheers and thanks for all the great info on the hamwan website.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 9:30 PM, Robert Edmiston <kg7ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the info, I've ordered a MikroTik LHG HP5 unit which has
> the dish and router in one.  It's not the most sensitive of their
> offerings, but it's affordable enough for an experiment to just buy on my
> own dime, and it's light enough to move around easily.  Let me know if this
> is a bad choice.  After it gets here, I'll try out your online
> documentation to see if I can connect without having to pester anybody.
> Thanks for putting this Puget Sound Ring together, I'm super excited to get
> involved and contribute.
>
> Bob Edmiston, KG7UCL
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 4:26 PM, John D. Hays <john at hays.org> wrote:
>
> And there are people who will help out, if needed.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Nigel Vander Houwen <nigel at nigelvh.com>
> wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
>
>
> We have a list/comparison of compatible options. Please note that Ubiquiti
> devices WILL NOT WORK on HamWAN. Mikrotik and Ubiquiti offer different
> protocols NV2 vs AirMax, and HamWAN is built on NV2, so it’s Mikrotik only.
>
>
>
> http://hamwan.org/Standards/Component%20Engineering/Client%20Hardware.html
>
>
>
> Some of those options, like the Poynting grid antenna are difficult to
> find these days, but there are a number of good options there. Once you
> have a setup, we also provide instructions for getting it configured.
>
>
>
> http://hamwan.org/Standards/Network%20Engineering/Client%
> 20Node%20Configuration.html
>
>
>
> And of course you can post here on the mailing list, or join us on chat
> http://webchat.freenode.net/?nick=HamWAN..&channels=%23HamWAN
> <http://webchat.freenode.net/?nick=HamWAN..&channels=#HamWAN> for
> additional info/help.
>
>
>
> Nigel
>
>
>
> On Oct 2, 2017, at 15:56, Robert Edmiston <kg7ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> Thanks for the quick response. That would be super if I could reach the
> Haystack site.  Our little community would be quite cut off without power
> in the event of an earthquake or even something as common as a heavy snow.
> My hub team is investigating solutions for emergency comms beyond feebly
> attempting to use voice to convey ICS-213 forms.  It sounds like you have
> something great working already and I'd love to see if it could work for
> us.
>
>
>
> I'd like to see if it would work at all, with minimal investment. We have
> a community council with funds to buy equipment if a proof of concept test
> works out.  What would be your recommended kit for seeing if we could make
> contact? From your online PowerPoint docs, I've read that the Microtik
> hardware is super hard to configure, but that the Ubiquiti is far easier to
> set up for people who are not network transport layer engineers.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 3:37 PM, Tom Hayward <tom at tomh.us> wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> What is your goal? Your location on the west side of the lake should
> be well covered by the Haystack site (at 4000' above Sultan). This
> will give you routing to all other HamWAN users.
>
> Tom KD7LXL
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Robert Edmiston <kg7ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi there. I'm Bob Edmiston, emergency hub radio lead for the Madison
> Park emergency hub. From a propagation perspective, the waterfront
> communities around Lake Washington have more in common with each other than
> their respective cities due to line-of-sight challenges. Waterfront
> communities share the luxury of direct line-of-sight radio communications,
> especially well suited to hamwan frequencies.
> >
> > My neighborhood on Lake WA falls in the hamwan shadow of the Washington
> Park hill, but we are line of sight to Kirkland and cougar mountain. Who
> could I speak with about the possibility of testing connections from
> Madison Park to the Eastside?
> > Bob Edmiston
> > KG7UCL
> > 425-985-4182
> > Madison Park HUB
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > PSDR mailing list
> > PSDR at hamwan.org
> > http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr
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>
> --
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> John D. Hays
> Edmonds, WA
>
> K7VE
>
>
>
>    <http://k7ve.org/blog>  <http://twitter.com/#!/john_hays>
>
>
>
>
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