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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">It's just a little more efficient to
stop unwanted traffic early, before it takes up a bunch of
airtime. Just an optimization, which may not be worth the
complexity right up front. Your suggestion works too.<br>
<br>
--Bart<br>
<br>
On 2/19/2013 8:46 PM, Benjamin Krueger wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAMcW5Do28RNt1h7JaDU6batQcdr8h2s2G-_ywcVey7RzKQTtag@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Just saw this, "just needs to push an ACL update".
Why can't we just route all traffic and let the client nodes run
their own firewalls? We *really* don't want to be in the
distributed firewall business. :)</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Bart
Kus <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:me@bartk.us" target="_blank">me@bartk.us</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>Global reachability is not in conflict with
autonomy. Achieving both simultaneously just requires
careful design of HamWAN network services. If the
HamWAN internet feed drops off, the routing, DNS and
other services need to continue working. The first word
in ASN is Autonomous after all. :)<br>
<br>
I consider NAT and Proxies as old crusty hacks from the
age of ISPs giving out just 1 IP/customer. It's time to
put these ideas to rest. IPv6 will do this on the
commercial internet in the coming years, and AMPRnet
will allow us to do it immediately here. For the cases
where communication is to be restricted due to user
preference, we can push filtering rules to firewalls at
the edges of the network, and at the HamWAN <->
user site interface. In short, firewalls: yes,
nat+gateways: no.<br>
<br>
If a user wants to make a service running on one of his
servers public, he just needs to push an ACL update to
HamWAN and it'll be opened up. No need to re-IP, update
DNS, change NICs, whatever else. And most importantly,
it makes everyone equal. Your subnet allocation has the
same powers as mine. There is no special ground to
fight over, such as space on a public subnet, or access
to some officially sanctioned gateway servers that are
allowed to do special things.<br>
<br>
If you want though, you can of course live in the world
of private IPs and NAT. Just configure your LAN router
that way.<br>
<br>
Complete freedom of configuration. This is the way the
internet should have evolved for geeks!<span
class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
--Bart</font></span>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
On 2/13/2013 8:30 AM, Cory (NQ1E) wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Unless I've misunderstood the point
of this network all together, there shouldn't be a
case where we want the entire network address
space to be reachable from the global internet.
It's much more likely that the network will
remain as autonomous as possible and any
connections to the internet will be for connecting
specific services through a gateway of some sort.
<div> <br>
</div>
<div>A subnet of at least /23 (typical minimum for
global BGP announcements) should be reserved for
the purpose of being globally routable in the
future, if/when HamWAN decides to peer with one
or more ISPs. An address in the /23 can be
given to each service gateway for connecting to
the internet.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The rest of the 44-net allocation can be
treated as private address space, except that
it's essentially guaranteed not to cause
conflicts with the user-level networks since
it's still globally unique.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at
2:28 AM, Bart Kus <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:me@bartk.us" target="_blank">me@bartk.us</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>Clever ;)<br>
<br>
What if HamWAN switches ISPs? All that
IPv6 space would need to be given up. It
can't follow you AFAIK. Or the ISP may
charge whatever they feel like to let you
take it with you. Also bad.<br>
<br>
The fees for IPv6 are not as low as I had
hoped, but not as high as you think
either! There's a 25% discount in effect
for "extra-small" allocations (which are
still larger than the entire IPv4
internet). The cost looks to be
$937.50/yr. Not sure it's worth the cost,
given the IPv4 AMPRnet situation. We can
very likely just expand our AMPRnet
allocation if we out-grow the /20.<span><font
color="#888888"><br>
<br>
--Bart</font></span>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
On 2/13/2013 1:10 AM, Cory (NQ1E)
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Here's an IPv6
allocation for you ;)
<div><br>
</div>
<div>::ffff:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://44.24.240.0/116"
target="_blank">44.24.240.0/116</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>With the obvious exception of
AMPRNet addresses for amateur
radio use, IP allocations should
come from an ISP. Obtaining a
direct allocation from ARIN would
cost around a couple grand per
year.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb
13, 2013 at 12:46 AM, Bart Kus <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:me@bartk.us"
target="_blank">me@bartk.us</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"> Result:
APPROVED<br>
Your allocated subnet is: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:44.24.240.0%20%2F%2020"
value="+14424240020"
target="_blank">44.24.240.0 /
20</a><br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://portal.ampr.org/networks.php?a=region&id=191"
target="_blank">https://portal.ampr.org/networks.php?a=region&id=191</a><br>
<br>
HamWAN now has 4096 real
Internet IPs to play with. Next
up: we gotta crack the mystery
of getting IPv6 net space. Any
volunteers? :)<br>
<br>
What an incredibly productive
day,<br>
<br>
--Bart<br>
<br>
<br>
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-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">Benjamin<br>
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