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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hello, "The Doctor"! Do you have a The
Name? :) I do remember reading about Byzantium when I was doing
initial research for HamWAN, so welcome to the mailing list!<br>
<br>
You make an interesting, but scary point about laws banning public
networks. I'm not so much worried about ISP policies; ISPs can be
changed. I've surfed through the link you provided and while it
makes claims that laws have been passed, I can't seem to find any
direct link to state legislature legal websites which publish the
ratified laws.<br>
<br>
Worryingly, it seems Washington state is affected. Are you able
to find anything official on the books for WA you can point us to?<br>
<br>
The short blurb of laws cited at the top of <a
href="http://www.cybertelecom.org/states/wa.htm">this page</a>
only seems to require that any public network give explicit
authorization to the general public for connections. This seems
like a reasonable policy and should not kill intentional public
networks. In our case, we're not an open public network, and do
require user registrations. Since we're using spectrum reserved
for hams, we just have to make sure each user is a ham. It's not
hard to become a ham, either. So we're just 1 step removed from
being fully open to the general public. :)<br>
<br>
The laws on the main page look to be concerned with local
GOVERNMENTS offering free networks and stomping out free
enterprise competition. This also seems reasonable to me. I'd
rather get my free WiFi from an NPO than a government. Let the
government donate to an NPO if they want to setup such things in
their community.<br>
<br>
Let the berating of my opinions begin! :)<br>
<br>
--Bart<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 02/22/2013 02:20 PM, Benjamin Krueger wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAMcW5DrLLC9p3YDqLR=_reRUOdXZxoth5aOmreC3e4SMCjmeaA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Lets be super clear here. We're not building a
general use ISP. It's an experimental open network. We'll
provide the best integrity controls we can, but there are no
promises and every participant should know exactly what they're
getting in to.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 2:12 PM, The
Doctor <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:drwho@virtadpt.net" target="_blank">drwho@virtadpt.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="im"><br>
On 02/21/2013 05:05 PM, Benjamin Krueger wrote:<br>
> We really need to think long and hard about whether
it's a good<br>
> idea to connect this network to the internet. I am
still<br>
> unconvinced of the value of this proposition, and it
causes a great<br>
> many extremely difficult technical and legal
challenges.<br>
<br>
</div>
In the US, unless the account you have with a broadband ISP<br>
specifically permits connection sharing (especially public
connection<br>
sharing), they may threaten to kill your access unless you
take the<br>
gateway to the mesh network down. They may also decide to
drop you as<br>
a customer entirely and be done with you.<br>
<br>
Additionally, there are several states that have laws
against doing<br>
just this. Community wireless networks run into this
problem a lot<br>
and not a few have been shut down here. It was a common
complaint<br>
from USian projects at the last International Summit for
Community<br>
Wireless Networks (this link was referenced a lot during the
"State of<br>
wireless" roundtable discussion:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.cybertelecom.org/broadband/muni.htm"
target="_blank">http://www.cybertelecom.org/broadband/muni.htm</a>).<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> If nothing else, it is a distraction for us today. If
we really<br>
> want to explore that feature of the network, we
should do it in a<br>
> future phase after the network is already
established. In the<br>
> meantime, we can block<br>
<br>
</div>
That would be a good strategy. In addition, you will want
to have a<br>
large community of active users to help you make a case for
not being<br>
shut down if it comes to it.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> traditionally encrypted ports on the network as
standard practice;<br>
> no need for one-off changes from end-users.<br>
<br>
</div>
The problem there is that you will then be forcing users to
connect to<br>
online services insecurely. Passive attackers will be able
to easily<br>
record authentication credentials to webmail services (which
are<br>
increasingly being used as authentication providers by other
services<br>
- - Google Mail comes to mind immediately), banks, and other
sites.<br>
<br>
You might be incurring additional liability if you set that
policy.<br>
You might also want to reconsider setting up network
gateways for this<br>
reason.<br>
<br>
- --<br>
The Doctor [412/724/301/703] [ZS]<br>
Developer, Project Byzantium: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://project-byzantium.org/" target="_blank">http://project-byzantium.org/</a><br>
<br>
PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F DD89 3BD8 FF2B
807B 17C1<br>
WWW: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://drwho.virtadpt.net/" target="_blank">https://drwho.virtadpt.net/</a><br>
<br>
"I'm prophetic, not infallible." --Mr. Morden<br>
<br>
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<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5"><br>
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</div>
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</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">Benjamin<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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<br>
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