<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Is there anybody else connecting to the sector antennas that Dean and I are using? (I know we are connecting to different sites, but to the two sector antennas in question?)</div><div><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On May 23, 2014, at 7:19 PM, Bart Kus <<a href="mailto:me@bartk.us">me@bartk.us</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Sounds like we need to take a closer
look at the vertical radiation pattern. Maybe something is
actually going on there.<br>
<br>
--Bart<br>
<br>
<br>
On 5/23/2014 2:33 PM, Dean Gibson AE7Q wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:537FBEB6.6060407@ae7q.com" type="cite">
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It may be "super weird", but I'm seeing the same thing. My
antenna is at 450'; the Paine antenna is at 750', and the
distance between the two is almost exactly 26400'. That's a rise
of 300' in 26400', and the arc-sine of that ratio (0.0113636) is
.65 degrees. However, for optimum results, I have my antenna also
aimed about 5 degrees above the horizon. I don't remember the
exact results when I aim at less than one degree, but it's
significantly less.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2014-05-22 13:28, Bart Kus wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:537E5DEC.8080008@bartk.us" type="cite">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">That's super weird. You might
wanna try moving the mount up/down the mast while keeping the
dish level. And yes, microwaves can be mysterious until you
get experience with them. That's one big advantage of doing a
project like this, it gives hams motivation to learn how to
deal with 6GHz and such.<br>
<br>
--Bart<br>
<br>
<br>
On 5/22/2014 1:03 PM, Kenny Richards wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:CAHEUKbL6hxPJco7Oeu7EWk2pMWvJ+4dRgHdMH4Y09Vo+B0RjnQ@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Bart,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
<span style="font-family:arial">>Would you like some
tower climbing / install help? That's some crazy uptilt
on the antenna picture you showed!</span><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
Thank you for the offer, but I think it can wait until
I'm healed. This was 'minor' knee surgery and I should
be back to working out in six weeks, so I'm sure
climbing the tower will be doable by then. We are at the
very beginning of tower climbing season.... </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">The
crazy uptilt required was the source of most of my
headaches. From that exact location, I will hear nothing
with the antenna at the normal 'level' mount point. You
need to tilt it up about five degrees or more before CP
will register. It never occurred to me that it would
have that big of impact. Microwaves are weird....</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
Kenny</div>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 11:54 PM,
Bart Kus <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:me@bartk.us" target="_blank">me@bartk.us</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Dean,<br>
<br>
I wouldn't limit your potential upside to 3dB with
... "spatial modulation". :) The vast majority
of your path loss is NOT due to distance. If you
did achieve clear (or better) LoS, you could be
looking at 30dB deltas. Remember we've had
Baldi-Tacoma (a far longer distance than yours)
run at -57dBm during a signal survey. K7JMM,
across the Puget Sound (about 3x your distance) is
running at -58dBm right now.<br>
<br>
Kenny,<br>
<br>
Would you like some tower climbing / install
help? That's some crazy uptilt on the antenna
picture you showed!<span class=""><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
--Bart</font></span>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
On 5/21/2014 9:27 PM, Kenny Richards wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Dean,</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
I'm slightly less mad at you, but still a
little peeved. :-) </div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
The shot to Capital Park from my house
goes through quite a few tree's in my
immediate area. (All within a couple
blocks from me) When I originally
installed the tower about 10 years ago, I
was able to see downtown from the top of
it. Now I can't, due to the trees of the
neighbor directly behind me and his
neighbor. </div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">That
said, I don't actually have the HamWAN
antenna mounted on the tower yet. I had to
postpone that installation until my knee
heals up. (Had the meniscus repaired in my
left knee last week) Right now the
antenna is mounted to a small mast at the
apex of the roof. (It is sharing the mast
with a VHF/UHF vertical) </div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">I
thought that I'd posted links to these
pictures before, but I guess not. </div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Picture
of current installation: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ku7m.net/drop/KU7M_HamWAN.JPG" target="_blank">http://www.ku7m.net/drop/KU7M_HamWAN.JPG</a></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Picture
of what I'm shooting through to get to
Capital Park: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ku7m.net/drop/KU7M_CPView.JPG" target="_blank">http://www.ku7m.net/drop/KU7M_CPView.JPG</a></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">And
just because it makes me laugh, the
installation from the first night it
started working: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ku7m.net/drop/DeckAntennaMount.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.ku7m.net/drop/DeckAntennaMount.jpg</a></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">The
difference in signal strength from the
antenna being on the deck railing to its
current location is ~5 dB. The height
difference between the to location is
about eight to ten feet. When moving the
antenna to the roof the first time, I had
originally installed it on a mast located
at the far east side of the roof. In this
spot I could not hear CP at all. By moving
the antenna to the mast located in the
center of the house (which is about 20-25
feet west), the signal appeared and has so
far been the best location. I ordered
another mast mounting kit for the eve
located at the far west side of the house.
When I'm feeling better I'll install it
and see if the signal improves again when
moving west. </div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">I
don't have many data points on the impact
of wind on the signal strength. I did
check it on Sunday when a system blew
through which was causing the trees to
noticeable move. But I wasn't seeing much
change in the signal strength. (maybe 1
db?) </div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
Kenny</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 21,
2014 at 7:44 PM, Dean Gibson AE7Q <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:hamwan@ae7q.com" target="_blank">hamwan@ae7q.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
First of all, Kenny: welcome! Now
that you have a HamWAN connection, I
hope you are no longer mad at me.
Where is your antenna (inside/outside,
height above ground, etc)?<br>
<br>
On a related but more serious side, do
you have a direct line-of-sight path
to Capitol Hill, or do you go through
trees? The reason I ask is, my path
goes through some trees. When it is
windy, that causes my RX signal level
(dBm value) to vary about 5 dB (mostly
down). I have wondered whether
mounting my antenna higher would help
my overall value (of course it would
help when it is windy).<br>
<br>
My average RX signal level is 80 dBm
(no winds), and yours appears to be 83
dBm. However, you are twice as far
from your cell site as I am from mine,
and since power falls off as the
square of the distance, I'd expect (in
similar configurations and siting)
that you would experience a 6 dB
difference. Since the difference is
only 3 dB, that suggests that (all
things being equal, which they never
are) I might gain <b>at most</b> 3 dB
by moving the antenna.<br>
</div>
<br>
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