<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Is there anybody else connecting to the sector antennas that Dean and I are using?  (I know we are connecting to different sites, but to the two sector antennas in question?)</div><div><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On May 23, 2014, at 7:19 PM, Bart Kus <<a href="mailto:me@bartk.us">me@bartk.us</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
  
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Sounds like we need to take a closer
      look at the vertical radiation pattern.  Maybe something is
      actually going on there.<br>
      <br>
      --Bart<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 5/23/2014 2:33 PM, Dean Gibson AE7Q wrote:<br>
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      It may be "super weird", but I'm seeing the same thing.  My
      antenna is at 450';  the Paine antenna is at 750', and the
      distance between the two is almost exactly 26400'.  That's a rise
      of 300' in 26400', and the arc-sine of that ratio (0.0113636) is
      .65 degrees.  However, for optimum results, I have my antenna also
      aimed about 5 degrees above the horizon.  I don't remember the
      exact results when I aim at less than one degree, but it's
      significantly less.<br>
      <br>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2014-05-22 13:28, Bart Kus wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote cite="mid:537E5DEC.8080008@bartk.us" type="cite">
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        <div class="moz-cite-prefix">That's super weird.  You might
          wanna try moving the mount up/down the mast while keeping the
          dish level.  And yes, microwaves can be mysterious until you
          get experience with them.  That's one big advantage of doing a
          project like this, it gives hams motivation to learn how to
          deal with 6GHz and such.<br>
          <br>
          --Bart<br>
          <br>
          <br>
          On 5/22/2014 1:03 PM, Kenny Richards wrote:<br>
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        <blockquote cite="mid:CAHEUKbL6hxPJco7Oeu7EWk2pMWvJ+4dRgHdMH4Y09Vo+B0RjnQ@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Bart,</div>
            <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
            </div>
            <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
              <span style="font-family:arial">>Would you like some
                tower climbing / install help?  That's some crazy uptilt
                on the antenna picture you showed!</span><br>
            </div>
            <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
            </div>
            <div class="gmail_extra">
              <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">​
                Thank you for the offer, but I think it can wait until
                I'm healed. This was 'minor' knee surgery and I should
                be back to working out in six weeks, so I'm sure
                climbing the tower will be doable by then. We are at the
                very beginning of tower climbing season.... </div>
              <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
              </div>
              <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">The


                crazy uptilt required was the source of most of my
                headaches. From that exact location, I will hear nothing
                with the antenna at the normal 'level' mount point. You
                need to tilt it up about five degrees or more before CP
                will register.  It never occurred to me that it would
                have that big of impact.  Microwaves are weird....</div>
              <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
              </div>
              <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks<br>
              </div>
              <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
                Kenny</div>
              <br>
            </div>
            <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 11:54 PM,
                Bart Kus <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:me@bartk.us" target="_blank">me@bartk.us</a>></span>
                wrote:<br>
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                    <div>Dean,<br>
                      <br>
                      I wouldn't limit your potential upside to 3dB with
                      ... "spatial modulation".  :)  The vast majority
                      of your path loss is NOT due to distance.  If you
                      did achieve clear (or better) LoS, you could be
                      looking at 30dB deltas.  Remember we've had
                      Baldi-Tacoma (a far longer distance than yours)
                      run at -57dBm during a signal survey.  K7JMM,
                      across the Puget Sound (about 3x your distance) is
                      running at -58dBm right now.<br>
                      <br>
                      Kenny,<br>
                      <br>
                      Would you like some tower climbing / install
                      help?  That's some crazy uptilt on the antenna
                      picture you showed!<span class=""><font color="#888888"><br>
                          <br>
                          --Bart</font></span>
                      <div>
                        <div class="h5"><br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          On 5/21/2014 9:27 PM, Kenny Richards wrote:<br>
                        </div>
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                      <div class="h5">
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                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Dean,</div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
                            </div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
                              I'm slightly less mad at you, but still a
                              little peeved. :-)  </div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
                            </div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
                              The shot to Capital Park from my house
                              goes through quite a few tree's in my
                              immediate area. (All within a couple
                              blocks from me)  When I originally
                              installed the tower about 10 years ago, I
                              was able to see downtown from the top of
                              it. Now I can't, due to the trees of the
                              neighbor directly behind me and his
                              neighbor.  </div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
                            </div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">That



                              said, I don't actually have the HamWAN
                              antenna mounted on the tower yet. I had to
                              postpone that installation until my knee
                              heals up. (Had the meniscus repaired in my
                              left knee last week)  Right now the
                              antenna is mounted to a small mast at the
                              apex of the roof. (It is sharing the mast
                              with a VHF/UHF vertical)  </div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
                            </div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">I
                              thought that I'd posted links to these
                              pictures before, but I guess not. </div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
                            </div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Picture



                              of current installation:  <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ku7m.net/drop/KU7M_HamWAN.JPG" target="_blank">http://www.ku7m.net/drop/KU7M_HamWAN.JPG</a></div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
                            </div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Picture



                              of what I'm shooting through to get to
                              Capital Park: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ku7m.net/drop/KU7M_CPView.JPG" target="_blank">http://www.ku7m.net/drop/KU7M_CPView.JPG</a></div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
                            </div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">And



                              just because it makes me laugh, the
                              installation from the first night it
                              started working: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ku7m.net/drop/DeckAntennaMount.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.ku7m.net/drop/DeckAntennaMount.jpg</a></div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
                            </div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">The



                              difference in signal strength from the
                              antenna being on the deck railing to its
                              current location is ~5 dB. The height
                              difference between the to location is
                              about eight to ten feet. When moving the
                              antenna to the roof the first time, I had
                              originally installed it on a mast located
                              at the far east side of the roof. In this
                              spot I could not hear CP at all. By moving
                              the antenna to the mast located in the
                              center of the house (which is about 20-25
                              feet west), the signal appeared and has so
                              far been the best location.  I ordered
                              another mast mounting kit for the eve
                              located at the far west side of the house.
                              When I'm feeling better I'll install it
                              and see if the signal improves again when
                              moving west. </div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
                            </div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">I
                              don't have many data points on the impact
                              of wind on the signal strength. I did
                              check it on Sunday when a system blew
                              through which was causing the trees to
                              noticeable move. But I wasn't seeing much
                              change in the signal strength. (maybe 1
                              db?)  </div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
                            </div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks</div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
                              Kenny</div>
                            <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                            <br>
                            <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 21,
                              2014 at 7:44 PM, Dean Gibson AE7Q <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:hamwan@ae7q.com" target="_blank">hamwan@ae7q.com</a>></span>
                              wrote:<br>
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                                <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                                  First of all, Kenny:  welcome!  Now
                                  that you have a HamWAN connection, I
                                  hope you are no longer mad at me. 
                                  Where is your antenna (inside/outside,
                                  height above ground, etc)?<br>
                                  <br>
                                  On a related but more serious side, do
                                  you have a direct line-of-sight path
                                  to Capitol Hill, or do you go through
                                  trees?  The reason I ask is, my path
                                  goes through some trees.  When it is
                                  windy, that causes my RX signal level
                                  (dBm value) to vary about 5 dB (mostly
                                  down).  I have wondered whether
                                  mounting my antenna higher would help
                                  my overall value (of course it would
                                  help when it is windy).<br>
                                  <br>
                                  My average RX signal level is 80 dBm
                                  (no winds), and yours appears to be 83
                                  dBm.  However, you are twice as far
                                  from your cell site as I am from mine,
                                  and since power falls off as the
                                  square of the distance, I'd expect (in
                                  similar configurations and siting)
                                  that you would experience a 6 dB
                                  difference.  Since the difference is
                                  only 3 dB, that suggests that (all
                                  things being equal, which they never
                                  are) I might gain <b>at most</b> 3 dB
                                  by moving the antenna.<br>
                                </div>
                                <br>
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                          <pre>_______________________________________________
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