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Kenny, I note that both you and I have the "ledge" of the base of
the antenna to the right. I wonder if whatever is in the plastic
"knob" at the end of the antenna stalk has a little vertical loop or
other non-symmetrical element in it, that alters the takeoff angle?
I'm not about to reorient my antenna on its mast, but if you are
interested in doing it on yours ...<br>
<br>
I have previously assumed that my "beam" (which is aimed vertically
to just clear the roof of the nearby house) just strikes enough
leaves/branches/water tower on its path to deflect a portion of the
signal back down so as to reach Paine. I still think that's what it
is, especially after Bart's comment that a clear shot might get me
another 20-30dB.<br>
<br>
ps: In my previous analysis of the mathematically-correct takeoff
angle for my antenna, I forgot to include the curvature of the
earth. In my case (5 miles to the Paine), it effectively reduces
the "rise" by 16.5 feet (about a 5% error in the angle, not a
significant factor in the calculation).<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2014-05-23 20:17, Kenny Richards
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:2B6E2340-267E-4C03-A76A-5C9B24718AC0@gmail.com"
type="cite">
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charset=ISO-8859-1">
<div>Is there anybody else connecting to the sector antennas that
Dean and I are using? (I know we are connecting to different
sites, but to the two sector antennas in question?)</div>
<div><br>
Sent from my iPad</div>
<div><br>
On May 23, 2014, at 7:19 PM, Bart Kus <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:me@bartk.us">me@bartk.us</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
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http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Sounds like we need to take a
closer look at the vertical radiation pattern. Maybe
something is actually going on there.<br>
<br>
--Bart<br>
<br>
<br>
On 5/23/2014 2:33 PM, Dean Gibson AE7Q wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:537FBEB6.6060407@ae7q.com" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
It may be "super weird", but I'm seeing the same thing. My
antenna is at 450'; the Paine antenna is at 750', and the
distance between the two is almost exactly 26400'. That's a
rise of 300' in 26400', and the arc-sine of that ratio
(0.0113636) is .65 degrees. However, for optimum results, I
have my antenna also aimed about 5 degrees above the
horizon. I don't remember the exact results when I aim at
less than one degree, but it's significantly less.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2014-05-22 13:28, Bart Kus
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:537E5DEC.8080008@bartk.us" type="cite">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">That's super weird. You
might wanna try moving the mount up/down the mast while
keeping the dish level. And yes, microwaves can be
mysterious until you get experience with them. That's
one big advantage of doing a project like this, it gives
hams motivation to learn how to deal with 6GHz and such.<br>
<br>
--Bart<br>
<br>
<br>
On 5/22/2014 1:03 PM, Kenny Richards wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHEUKbL6hxPJco7Oeu7EWk2pMWvJ+4dRgHdMH4Y09Vo+B0RjnQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Bart,</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
<span style="font-family:arial">>Would you like
some tower climbing / install help? That's some
crazy uptilt on the antenna picture you showed!</span><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
Thank you for the offer, but I think it can wait
until I'm healed. This was 'minor' knee surgery
and I should be back to working out in six weeks,
so I'm sure climbing the tower will be doable by
then. We are at the very beginning of tower
climbing season.... </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">The
crazy uptilt required was the source of most of my
headaches. From that exact location, I will hear
nothing with the antenna at the normal 'level'
mount point. You need to tilt it up about five
degrees or more before CP will register. It never
occurred to me that it would have that big of
impact. Microwaves are weird....</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
Kenny</div>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 21, 2014 at
11:54 PM, Bart Kus <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:me@bartk.us" target="_blank">me@bartk.us</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Dean,<br>
<br>
I wouldn't limit your potential upside to
3dB with ... "spatial modulation". :) The
vast majority of your path loss is NOT due
to distance. If you did achieve clear (or
better) LoS, you could be looking at 30dB
deltas. Remember we've had Baldi-Tacoma (a
far longer distance than yours) run at
-57dBm during a signal survey. K7JMM,
across the Puget Sound (about 3x your
distance) is running at -58dBm right now.<br>
<br>
Kenny,<br>
<br>
Would you like some tower climbing / install
help? That's some crazy uptilt on the
antenna picture you showed!<span class=""><font
color="#888888"><br>
<br>
--Bart</font></span>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
On 5/21/2014 9:27 PM, Kenny Richards
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Dean,</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
I'm slightly less mad at you, but
still a little peeved. :-) </div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
The shot to Capital Park from my
house goes through quite a few
tree's in my immediate area. (All
within a couple blocks from me)
When I originally installed the
tower about 10 years ago, I was able
to see downtown from the top of it.
Now I can't, due to the trees of the
neighbor directly behind me and his
neighbor. </div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">That
said, I don't actually have the
HamWAN antenna mounted on the tower
yet. I had to postpone that
installation until my knee heals up.
(Had the meniscus repaired in my
left knee last week) Right now the
antenna is mounted to a small mast
at the apex of the roof. (It is
sharing the mast with a VHF/UHF
vertical) </div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">I
thought that I'd posted links to
these pictures before, but I guess
not. </div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Picture
of current installation: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ku7m.net/drop/KU7M_HamWAN.JPG"
target="_blank">http://www.ku7m.net/drop/KU7M_HamWAN.JPG</a></div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Picture
of what I'm shooting through to get
to Capital Park: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ku7m.net/drop/KU7M_CPView.JPG"
target="_blank">http://www.ku7m.net/drop/KU7M_CPView.JPG</a></div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">And
just because it makes me laugh, the
installation from the first night it
started working: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ku7m.net/drop/DeckAntennaMount.jpg"
target="_blank">http://www.ku7m.net/drop/DeckAntennaMount.jpg</a></div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">The
difference in signal strength from
the antenna being on the deck
railing to its current location is
~5 dB. The height difference between
the to location is about eight to
ten feet. When moving the antenna to
the roof the first time, I had
originally installed it on a mast
located at the far east side of the
roof. In this spot I could not hear
CP at all. By moving the antenna to
the mast located in the center of
the house (which is about 20-25 feet
west), the signal appeared and has
so far been the best location. I
ordered another mast mounting kit
for the eve located at the far west
side of the house. When I'm feeling
better I'll install it and see if
the signal improves again when
moving west. </div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">I
don't have many data points on the
impact of wind on the signal
strength. I did check it on Sunday
when a system blew through which was
causing the trees to noticeable
move. But I wasn't seeing much
change in the signal strength.
(maybe 1 db?) </div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
Kenny</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May
21, 2014 at 7:44 PM, Dean Gibson
AE7Q <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:hamwan@ae7q.com"
target="_blank">hamwan@ae7q.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000"
bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> First of all,
Kenny: welcome! Now that you
have a HamWAN connection, I hope
you are no longer mad at me.
Where is your antenna
(inside/outside, height above
ground, etc)?<br>
<br>
On a related but more serious
side, do you have a direct
line-of-sight path to Capitol
Hill, or do you go through
trees? The reason I ask is, my
path goes through some trees.
When it is windy, that causes my
RX signal level (dBm value) to
vary about 5 dB (mostly down).
I have wondered whether mounting
my antenna higher would help my
overall value (of course it
would help when it is windy).<br>
<br>
My average RX signal level is 80
dBm (no winds), and yours
appears to be 83 dBm. However,
you are twice as far from your
cell site as I am from mine, and
since power falls off as the
square of the distance, I'd
expect (in similar
configurations and siting) that
you would experience a 6 dB
difference. Since the
difference is only 3 dB, that
suggests that (all things being
equal, which they never are) I
might gain <b>at most</b> 3 dB
by moving the antenna.<br>
</div>
<br>
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