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If you want to try to PING the ID-1 at Snohomish County DEM, try the
following settings:<br>
<br>
In your ID-1:<br>
<ul>
<li>Mode: DD</li>
<li>Frequency: 1297.750<br>
</li>
</ul>
<br>
In your router:<br>
<ul>
<li>IP address: 172.20.10.2 (this is unique for you)<br>
</li>
<li>Netmask: 255.255.0.0</li>
<li>Gateway: 172.20.20.254</li>
<li>DNS servers: (doesn't matter at this point)<br>
</li>
</ul>
<br>
Let me know how it goes ...<br>
<br>
-- Dean<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2014-05-26 11:14, Bob wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It
was over four years ago that I started this project. At the
time my knowledge of networking was 2 of a scale of 10.
Today I might be a 3.5; still have a lot to learn.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Initially
I had a XP lap top connected directly to the ID-1. It was
configured the same as the router below.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
started by pinging the gateway. LWHC has a number of IP
addresses assigned, not all will reply to a pings. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
use “ping 10.0.0.1” (basic garden variety ping) to
determine if I had a usable path.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
then “ping Comcast.net” and got an average reply time of
243ms through the ID-1 and K7LWH-DD. This compares to a
Concast.net ping using my commercial (Comcast) account of
98ms.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
then connected to Bing.com, Google.com and ARRL.org through
K7LWH-DD using Internet Explorer. The performance,
subjectively, was a little better than a dial up connection.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
stopped most work on our high speed data project in early
2012. I reactivated it as a feasibility study rather than
an implementation project.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
now have the ID-1 connected to a router. With a Windows7
computer connected to the router, I can “ping 10.0.0.1” with
average times between 110 and 120 ms. Internet Explore does
not connect to Bing, Google, nor ARRL.org and Packlink
indicates that it cannot find a path to a Winlink CMS but
somehow messages get to the CMS via telnet connection.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Anyhow,
at least for now, we have an alternate path to get emails
out of Kirkland if we lose Internet at the City Hall. I am
changing the focus of high speed data transfer away from the
ID-1 to HamWAN and NW-MESH.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Bob
– KE7JL<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p><br>
</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
PSDR [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org">mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dean
Gibson AE7Q<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 26, 2014 9:01 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Puget Sound Data Ring<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [HamWAN PSDR] 1.2GHz to Paine [was:
44.x.x.x HamWAN network at Paine]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Ah, I'd like
the IP address you are PINGing. What do you type after the
command "ping"?<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2014-05-25 10:22, Bob wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
router is setup as follows:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
IP: 10.136.19.168</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
Sub Mask: 255.0.0.0</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
Gateway: 10.0.0.1</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
DNS: 10.0.0.2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
Alt: 10.0.0.1</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Bob</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
PSDR [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org">mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dean Gibson AE7Q<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, May 24, 2014 9:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Puget Sound Data Ring<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [HamWAN PSDR] 1.2GHz to Paine
[was: 44.x.x.x HamWAN network at Paine]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">When you
attempt to ping using the K7LWH/DD module, what IP address
do you specify?<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2014-05-24 14:36, Bob wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Dean,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Here are some observations and
conclusion that I have come up with in adding the ID-1 to
the Kirkland Emergency Communications Team’s tool box. I
have done a number of tests of the ID-1 from various
locations in Kirkland in both the Digital Data (DD) mode
and the Digital Voice (DV) mode. I tested simplex paths
(ID-1 to ID-1) and paths to the Lake Washington Ham Club
(LWHC) DSTAR DV repeater and DD gateway nodes in Bellevue.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]-->There
are a few locations in Kirkland that have direct visual
line of site to LWHC Gateway in Belleview. From those
locations, pings are consistently returned in 100 to 200ms
with an occasional loss.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]-->We
have two location (Stations 22 and 25) are not visual but
according to Radio Mobile modeling skim the terrain. At
these sights no ping are returned.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]-->At
my home QTH (Lat: 47.694 Lon: -122.2161) I do not have a
visual of the LWHC Gateway, but I get occasional pings
returned.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">4.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]-->John
Hays loan me a 1.23 GHz directional antenna. With the
directional antenna I detected two paths to the gateway.
One was off a condo about 180 degrees from the gateway
about a mile away; the other was off the NOAA building
four miles awat at Sand Point about 15 degrees clockwise
from the gateway. This indicates the presents of
multi-paths that could be interfering with the data even
with good signal strength.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">5.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]-->I
will also confirm the DV mode is more robust than the DD
mode, but it too is affect by multi-path.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">About 2 weeks ago I brought the ID-1 on
line to serve as an alternate path to the Winlink CMS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bob – KE7JL<o:p></o:p><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
PSDR [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org">mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dean Gibson AE7Q<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, May 24, 2014 10:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Puget Sound Data Ring<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [HamWAN PSDR] 1.2GHz to Paine [was:
44.x.x.x HamWAN network at Paine]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Scott Honaker and I have moved forward
on this project:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4
level1 lfo5">We have installed a gateway (Linksys
BEFSR41) between the ID-1 and the internal ARES/RACES
subnet (not 44.x.x.x) of the DEM.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4
level1 lfo5">We have installed a Digi "AnywhereUSB" box
to give us remote access to the ID-1's USB port, and
thus remote control of the ID-1 radio. This not only
allows multiple use of the ID-1 (which has useful 1.2GHz
FM and digital voice modes as well as Ethernet data),
but provides for remote frequency agility and a
diagnostic capability. This works beautifully (eg, to
search for and use a low-noise frequency)!<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p>Unfortunately, what does not work very well, is the RF
portion of the connection. PINGs failed at a rate of over
99% when using the 1.2GHz antenna at the 70 ft level on
the tower, so we swapped the antenna with the one used for
the Icom 1.2GHz repeater (which wasn't seeing any action
anyway) at 100 ft. That made a "dramatic" improvement, as
PINGs now only fail at a 98% rate (depends upon the time
of day, etc)!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Antenna comparison between 1.2GHz and 5.9 GHz for the two
sites:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo8">On 1.2GHz, both antennas are
omni-directional.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo8">At the DEM, the 1.2GHz antenna is now at
the 100' level, whereas the 5.9GHz antenna is at 150'.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo8">At my home, the 1.2GHz antenna is about 10'
above the 5.9GHz antenna, and it's on the same
line-of-sight path.<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p>Note that voice communication between the two sites using
the two ID-1 radios, is fine (there is a slight bit of
noise on FM).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The big difference, in my opinion? I'll bet that the
wireless protocol used by the MikroTik radios includes an
aggressive error correction and retry protocol, whereas
the ID-1 is like a piece of Ethernet cable, and thus
relies on the standard TCP/IP retry mechanism. The TCP/IP
protocols, while "unreliable" in the technical sense of
the term, require a higher overall reliability than a
typical raw wireless connection.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>What this says (and I'm a bit surprised to note this), is
that sites considering using ID-1 radios for data
communications, may find that even with the tighter siting
requirements of 5.9GHz, that the latter may be more
successful (whether or not part of HamWAN). In addition
to being a lower-cost radio with a much higher data rate,
the MikroTik radios offer a built-in router, which can
obviate the need for a separate router.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>-- Dean<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">ps: The callsign and digital
code filtering features of D-Star that we previously
discussed, are not available (greyed out in the software)
for digital <b>data</b> mode. Huh? Another fine example
of software of the "seven last words" of poor program
design: <b>"Why would you want to do that?"</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<br>
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