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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It was over four years ago that I started this project. At the time my knowledge of networking was 2 of a scale of 10. Today I might be a 3.5; still have a lot to learn.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Initially I had a XP lap top connected directly to the ID-1. It was configured the same as the router below.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I started by pinging the gateway. LWHC has a number of IP addresses assigned, not all will reply to a pings. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I use “ping 10.0.0.1” (basic garden verity ping) to determine if I had a usable path.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I then “ping Comcast.net” and got an average reply time of 243ms through the ID-1 and K7LWH-DD. This compares to a Concast.net ping using my commercial (Comcast) account of 98ms.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I then connected to Bing.com, Google.com and ARRL.org through K7LWH-DD using Internet Explorer. The performance, subjectively, was a little better than a dial up connection.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I stopped most work on our high speed data project in early 2012. I reactivated it as a feasibility study rather than an implication project.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I now have the ID-1 connected to a router. With a Windows7 computer connected to the router, I can “ping 10.0.0.1” with average times between 110 and 120 ms. Internet Explore does not connect to Bing, Google, nor ARRL.org and Packlink indicates that it cannot fine a path to a Winlink CMS but somehow messages get to the CMS via telnet connection.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Anyhow, at least for now, we have an alternate path to get emails out of Kirkland if we lose internet at the City Hall. I am changing the focus of high speed data transfer away from the ID-1 to HamWAN and NW-MESH.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bob – KE7JL<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> PSDR [mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dean Gibson AE7Q<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 26, 2014 9:01 AM<br><b>To:</b> Puget Sound Data Ring<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [HamWAN PSDR] 1.2GHz to Paine [was: 44.x.x.x HamWAN network at Paine]<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Ah, I'd like the IP address you are PINGing. What do you type after the command "ping"?<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 2014-05-25 10:22, Bob wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The router is setup as follows:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> IP: 10.136.19.168</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Sub Mask: 255.0.0.0</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Gateway: 10.0.0.1</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> DNS: 10.0.0.2</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Alt: 10.0.0.1</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bob</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> PSDR [<a href="mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org">mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dean Gibson AE7Q<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, May 24, 2014 9:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> Puget Sound Data Ring<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [HamWAN PSDR] 1.2GHz to Paine [was: 44.x.x.x HamWAN network at Paine]</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>When you attempt to ping using the K7LWH/DD module, what IP address do you specify?<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 2014-05-24 14:36, Bob wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Dean,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Here are some observations and conclusion that I have come up with in adding the ID-1 to the Kirkland Emergency Communications Team’s tool box. I have done a number of tests of the ID-1 from various locations in Kirkland in both the Digital Data (DD) mode and the Digital Voice (DV) mode. I tested simplex paths (ID-1 to ID-1) and paths to the Lake Washington Ham Club (LWHC) DSTAR DV repeater and DD gateway nodes in Bellevue.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>There are a few locations in Kirkland that have direct visual line of site to LWHC Gateway in Belleview. From those locations, pings are consistently returned in 100 to 200ms with an occasional loss.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>We have two location (Stations 22 and 25) are not visual but according to Radio Mobile modeling skim the terrain. At these sights no ping are returned.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>At my home QTH (Lat: 47.694 Lon: -122.2161) I do not have a visual of the LWHC Gateway, but I get occasional pings returned.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>4.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>John Hays loan me a 1.23 GHz directional antenna. With the directional antenna I detected two paths to the gateway. One was off a condo about 180 degrees from the gateway about a mile away; the other was off the NOAA building four miles awat at Sand Point about 15 degrees clockwise from the gateway. This indicates the presents of multi-paths that could be interfering with the data even with good signal strength.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>5.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>I will also confirm the DV mode is more robust than the DD mode, but it too is affect by multi-path.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>About 2 weeks ago I brought the ID-1 on line to serve as an alternate path to the Winlink CMS.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Bob – KE7JL<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> PSDR [<a href="mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org">mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dean Gibson AE7Q<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, May 24, 2014 10:20 AM<br><b>To:</b> Puget Sound Data Ring<br><b>Subject:</b> [HamWAN PSDR] 1.2GHz to Paine [was: 44.x.x.x HamWAN network at Paine]</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Scott Honaker and I have moved forward on this project:<o:p></o:p></p><ol start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo5'>We have installed a gateway (Linksys BEFSR41) between the ID-1 and the internal ARES/RACES subnet (not 44.x.x.x) of the DEM.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo5'>We have installed a Digi "AnywhereUSB" box to give us remote access to the ID-1's USB port, and thus remote control of the ID-1 radio. This not only allows multiple use of the ID-1 (which has useful 1.2GHz FM and digital voice modes as well as Ethernet data), but provides for remote frequency agility and a diagnostic capability. This works beautifully (eg, to search for and use a low-noise frequency)!<o:p></o:p></li></ol><p>Unfortunately, what does not work very well, is the RF portion of the connection. PINGs failed at a rate of over 99% when using the 1.2GHz antenna at the 70 ft level on the tower, so we swapped the antenna with the one used for the Icom 1.2GHz repeater (which wasn't seeing any action anyway) at 100 ft. That made a "dramatic" improvement, as PINGs now only fail at a 98% rate (depends upon the time of day, etc)!<o:p></o:p></p><p>Antenna comparison between 1.2GHz and 5.9 GHz for the two sites:<o:p></o:p></p><ol start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo8'>On 1.2GHz, both antennas are omni-directional.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo8'>At the DEM, the 1.2GHz antenna is now at the 100' level, whereas the 5.9GHz antenna is at 150'.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo8'>At my home, the 1.2GHz antenna is about 10' above the 5.9GHz antenna, and it's on the same line-of-sight path.<o:p></o:p></li></ol><p>Note that voice communication between the two sites using the two ID-1 radios, is fine (there is a slight bit of noise on FM).<o:p></o:p></p><p>The big difference, in my opinion? I'll bet that the wireless protocol used by the MikroTik radios includes an aggressive error correction and retry protocol, whereas the ID-1 is like a piece of Ethernet cable, and thus relies on the standard TCP/IP retry mechanism. The TCP/IP protocols, while "unreliable" in the technical sense of the term, require a higher overall reliability than a typical raw wireless connection.<o:p></o:p></p><p>What this says (and I'm a bit surprised to note this), is that sites considering using ID-1 radios for data communications, may find that even with the tighter siting requirements of 5.9GHz, that the latter may be more successful (whether or not part of HamWAN). In addition to being a lower-cost radio with a much higher data rate, the MikroTik radios offer a built-in router, which can obviate the need for a separate router.<o:p></o:p></p><p>-- Dean<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>ps: The callsign and digital code filtering features of D-Star that we previously discussed, are not available (greyed out in the software) for digital <b>data</b> mode. Huh? Another fine example of software of the "seven last words" of poor program design: <b>"Why would you want to do that?"</b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>PSDR mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:PSDR@hamwan.org">PSDR@hamwan.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://mail.hamwan.org/mailman/listinfo/psdr_hamwan.org">http://mail.hamwan.org/mailman/listinfo/psdr_hamwan.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>