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<p>For what it's worth the Victoria uplink is a 30/5 business cable
connection which VPNs back to the Seattle edge routers. No BGP
connectivity up here at present, but we MAY have something coming
down the pipe via a Vancover datacenter after we build out
Saltspring Island (hopefully) this summer.<br>
</p>
Chris<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/14/2017 2:34 AM, Bart Kus wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:3a2b1fc9-79ad-3517-3439-426917a4352f@bartk.us"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
I'm not sure that's a fair assessment. The link to SnoDEM is only
-77dBm and only on hpol (vpol is -90 ish). Here's the perf that
link gets:<br>
<br>
<tt>[<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:eo@SnoDEM.Haystack">eo@SnoDEM.Haystack</a>]
/interface wireless registration-table> /tool bandwidth-test
44.24.242.6 direction=receive</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> status: running</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> duration: 30s</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> rx-current: 4.4Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> rx-10-second-average: 4.7Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> rx-total-average: 4.4Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> lost-packets: 478</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> random-data: no</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> direction: receive</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> rx-size: 1500</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:eo@SnoDEM.Haystack">eo@SnoDEM.Haystack</a>]
/interface wireless registration-table> /tool bandwidth-test
44.24.242.6 direction=transmit</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> status: running</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> duration: 30s</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> tx-current: 11.9kbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> tx-10-second-average: 27.6kbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> tx-total-average: 26.4kbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> random-data: no</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> direction: transmit</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> tx-size: 1500</tt><br>
<br>
That TX path makes the link useless. Better to turn it off! Or
maybe ditch the weak polarity.<br>
<br>
Then there's Nigel's + my link (I'm NOT uplinking right now), both
sitting @ -81dBm, which is pretty low. Or at least we were. I
see Nigel's @ -68dBm right now. I don't know how to explain
that. Here's the link speed:<br>
<br>
<tt>[eo@Haystack-S3] /interface wireless registration-table>
/tool bandwidth-test 44.24.241.78 direction=receive</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> status: running</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> duration: 30s</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> rx-current: 21.3Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> rx-10-second-average: 19.4Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> rx-total-average: 18.8Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> lost-packets: 1720</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> random-data: no</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> direction: receive</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> rx-size: 1500</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>[eo@Haystack-S3] /interface wireless
registration-table> /tool bandwidth-test 44.24.241.78
direction=transmit</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> status: running</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> duration: 30s</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> tx-current: 25.2Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> tx-10-second-average: 26.7Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> tx-total-average: 24.4Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> random-data: no</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> direction: transmit</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> tx-size: 1500</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><br>
</tt>But of course that's on S3, so he'll be sharing time domain
with NR3O's uplink, so cut that speed at least in 1/2, and
probably more when the -81dBm conditions return. Then we have a
link to QueenAnne:<br>
<br>
<tt>[<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:eo@QueenAnne.Haystack">eo@QueenAnne.Haystack</a>]
> /tool bandwidth-test 44.24.242.39 direction=receive</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> status: running</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> duration: 30s</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> rx-current: 113.9Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> rx-10-second-average: 124.3Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> rx-total-average: 104.6Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> lost-packets: 6234</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> random-data: no</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> direction: receive</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> rx-size: 1500</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:eo@QueenAnne.Haystack">eo@QueenAnne.Haystack</a>]
> /tool bandwidth-test 44.24.242.39 direction=transmit</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> status: running</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> duration: 30s</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> tx-current: 76.2Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> tx-10-second-average: 76.7Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> tx-total-average: 58.4Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> random-data: no</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> direction: transmit</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> tx-size: 1500</tt><tt><br>
</tt><br>
Which as you can see is pretty sweet, but it's then choked by the
QueenAnne-Westin link when it comes to reaching the Internet:<br>
<br>
<tt>[<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:eo@QueenAnne.Seattle">eo@QueenAnne.Seattle</a>]
> /tool bandwidth-test 44.24.242.35 direction=receive</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> status: running</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> duration: 30s</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> rx-current: 3.2Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> rx-10-second-average: 2.9Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> rx-total-average: 2.9Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> lost-packets: 28</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> random-data: no</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> direction: receive</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> rx-size: 1500</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:eo@QueenAnne.Seattle">eo@QueenAnne.Seattle</a>]
> /tool bandwidth-test 44.24.242.35 direction=transmit</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> status: running</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> duration: 30s</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> tx-current: 4.5Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> tx-10-second-average: 4.3Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> tx-total-average: 4.3Mbps</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> random-data: no</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> direction: transmit</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> tx-size: 1500</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><br>
</tt>The Victoria link doesn't have direct peering to the
Internet, it VPNs back to the Westin. Last time I measured, it
does 15Mbit one way and 30Mbit the other way, and I don't know
what the limits are on the cable modem VPN.<br>
<br>
So no, I would not consider Haystack as having good connectivity.
We need to get Victoria onto a different cell site (yet to be
constructed) so we can point the dish back at SnoDEM. Having the
dish pointed back @ SnoDEM will also allow K7NVH's uplink to be
collinear and get out of the -81dBm muck. We also need to fix
QueenAnne's connectivity. This might have some chance of success
as we get more access to the Capitol Park site. We could either
up CP's connectivity with CA and Baldi, and route via Tukwila, or
we could connect CP directly to Haystack and route via Tukwila.
QueenAnne may also be able to link with Gold.<br>
<br>
So if you're seeing slow connectivity, on the order of 5Mbit or
so, now you know why.<br>
<br>
PS: I disabled ch1 on Haystack.SnoDEM and the slow
Haystack->SnoDEM transfer speeds didn't stop. Now I suspect
it's the brand new 5GHz WiFi that got installed all over that
building. Need to do more research and maybe find a better
frequency.<br>
<br>
--Bart<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/13/2017 11:27 PM, Rob Salsgiver
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:000b01d29c8c$1c67b9c0$55372d40$@nr3o.com"
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Cool
– thanks. Once again it seems my mind is the item
suffering the outages these days….<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Sigh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rob<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
PSDR [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org">mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Nigel Vander Houwen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 13, 2017 11:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Puget Sound Data Ring<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [HamWAN PSDR] Haystack Site Outage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Haystack is pretty well connected as
well, it has links to Vancouver, Paine, and Queen Anne, as
well as Bart and myself are uplink nodes connected to
Haystack.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nigel<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mar 13, 2017, at 23:19, Rob
Salsgiver <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rob@nr3o.com">rob@nr3o.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
was thinking more about the strength/stability of
Haystack. When I was connecting up the hospital
in Monroe I thought I remembered being told that
Haystack was marginal due to the split from Paine
and one of the other links being interfered with
(Amazon?) – I might be mixing my site memories.
If it’s marginal I would like to see Haystack
solidified (if possible) as I have Evergreen on
there and it’s my #1 option for Everett Clinic.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Cheers,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rob</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
class="apple-converted-space"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">PSDR
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org">mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org</a>]<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Nigel
Vander Houwen<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday,
March 13, 2017 10:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Puget
Sound Data Ring<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[HamWAN PSDR] Haystack Site Outage</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Rob,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">That’s correct, the dish at
haystack was turned a few degrees farther north to
better connect Victoria. However, the link to
Paine remains up, and has fairly good signal
strength. Adding in the East Tiger<->Paine
and Gold<->Paine links, the site is pretty
well connected. Adding another dish to gain a few
dB on an already decent signal isn’t currently on
the plans.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nigel<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mar 13, 2017, at
14:21, Rob Salsgiver <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rob@nr3o.com"><span
style="color:purple">rob@nr3o.com</span></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Nigel,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If
memory serves me correctly I think we
swung the Paine dish to cover the new
Victoria site last year. Are there
any plans to install a separate dish
to optimize both links once the
weather and access improve?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Cheers,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rob
/ NR3O</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
name="_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
class="apple-converted-space"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">PSDR
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org"><span
style="color:purple">mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org</span></a>]<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Nigel
Vander Houwen<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday,
March 12, 2017 11:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Puget
Sound Data Ring <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:psdr@hamwan.org"><span
style="color:purple">psdr@hamwan.org</span></a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[HamWAN PSDR] Haystack Site Outage</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Evening Everybody,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Today Bart and the
site owner took another run at getting
up to haystack and managed to fight
their way up to the site. They managed
to get a lot done, and Haystack is in
much better shape.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1">They found some misbehaving
equipment that had a huge draw (>400W
continuous) on the power system up
there, overwhelming the solar generation
capacity, draining the batteries, and
causing the generator to run more than
it should have been needed, and then run
out of fuel.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1">They brought up 40 gallons
of fuel that was brought partway up the
mountain on the last trip.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1">Bart replaced the
Haystack-S3 modem to see if it would fix
an issue we’re seeing with non-symmetric
signal strengths. It didn’t resolve the
issue, so we’ll revisit that issue again
later.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1">Replaced the RJ45 connector
for the Haystack-S3 modem that may have
been the cause for the earlier
Haystack-S3 outage.<o:p></o:p></li>
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<p class="MsoNormal">All together, with
the misbehaving loads removed from the
system, and the generator refueled to
get the batteries recharged so it’s
not all on solar to bring things back
up, things are looking much better.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">We’ve powered back
online all of the HamWAN equipment at
the site, so the sectors and backbone
links are all up and operating
normally.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I’d like to thank
again the folks who made the previous
attempt and got the fuel most of the
way up the mountain, as well as bart
and the site owner for making the run
today to finish the job. All the
efforts are appreciated, and are
paying off in the site being back
online.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Nigel<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Mar 4, 2017,
at 23:41, Nigel Vander Houwen <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nigel@nigelvh.com"><span
style="color:purple">nigel@nigelvh.com</span></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hello All,<br>
<br>
Our site at Haystack has been
having some trouble with the
solar charging setup, and has
not been able to get much energy
with the limited solar that
remains working onsite, as such,
the site owner has been
intermittently running the
generator to keep the batteries
charged. Unfortunately, as of
Friday the generator is out of
fuel.<br>
<br>
Bart, Bruce, and one or two
others (I didn’t catch the
names), made a heroic effort
today to get onsite with
snowmobiles and a snow cat to
refuel the tanks, and repair the
solar charging problems, but
were stymied by snow conditions,
and were not able to reach the
site today.<br>
<br>
Considering the limited solar
functioning, and the clear
weather today, we had a pretty
good day, but the forecast
doesn’t look promising for
keeping that up.<br>
<br>
I’ve shut down our sectors at
Haystack to try and conserve
some power, so if you normally
connect to Haystack, or were
looking to try, please be aware
that for the moment, the
Haystack sectors are offline.<br>
<br>
We’ll let you know when we’re
able to get the sectors back
online. Hopefully soon we’ll be
able to get more fuel up there,
and the extra solar capacity
repaired.<br>
<br>
Thanks again for the efforts of
the volunteers that tried to
reach the site today. It was a
real slog, and the efforts are
appreciated.<br>
<br>
Nigel<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
PSDR mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:PSDR@hamwan.org"><span
style="color:purple">PSDR@hamwan.org</span></a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr"><span
style="color:purple">http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">_______________________________________________<br>
PSDR mailing list<br>
</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:PSDR@hamwan.org"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:purple">PSDR@hamwan.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><br>
</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:purple">http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">_______________________________________________<br>
PSDR mailing list<br>
</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:PSDR@hamwan.org"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:purple">PSDR@hamwan.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><br>
</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:purple">http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
PSDR mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:PSDR@hamwan.org">PSDR@hamwan.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr">http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr</a>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
PSDR mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:PSDR@hamwan.org">PSDR@hamwan.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr">http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr</a>
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