[HamWAN PSDR] 1.2GHz to Paine [was: 44.x.x.x HamWAN network at Paine]

Dean Gibson AE7Q hamwan at ae7q.com
Mon May 26 15:31:32 PDT 2014


I hasten to add, the IP address you want to PING, is (currently) 10.0.0.1.

For lurkers:  Yes, DHCP is enabled on the RF side of the router at the 
DEM, but if you are having trouble connecting with PINGs, the 
probability of a successful DHCP IP assignment will be low.

On 2014-05-26 15:15, Dean Gibson AE7Q wrote:
> If you want to try to PING the ID-1 at Snohomish County DEM, try the 
> following settings:
>
> In your ID-1:
>
>   * Mode: DD
>   * Frequency: 1297.750
>
>
> In your router:
>
>   * IP address: 172.20.10.2 (this is unique for you)
>   * Netmask: 255.255.0.0
>   * Gateway: 172.20.20.254
>   * DNS servers: (doesn't matter at this point)
>
>
> Let me know how it goes ...
>
> -- Dean
>
> On 2014-05-26 11:14, Bob wrote:
>>
>> It was over four years ago that I started this project.  At the time 
>> my knowledge of networking was 2 of a scale of 10.  Today I might be 
>> a 3.5; still have a lot to learn.
>>
>> Initially I had a XP lap top connected directly to the ID-1. It was 
>> configured the same as the router below.
>>
>> I started by pinging the gateway.  LWHC has a number of IP addresses 
>> assigned, not all will reply to a pings.
>>
>> I use "ping 10.0.0.1"  (basic garden variety ping) to determine if I 
>> had a usable path.
>>
>> I then "ping Comcast.net" and got an average reply time of 243ms 
>> through the ID-1 and K7LWH-DD.  This compares to a Concast.net ping 
>> using my commercial (Comcast) account of 98ms.
>>
>> I then connected to Bing.com, Google.com and ARRL.org through 
>> K7LWH-DD using Internet Explorer.  The performance, subjectively, was 
>> a little better than a dial up connection.
>>
>> I stopped most work on our high speed data project in early 2012.   I 
>> reactivated it as a feasibility study rather than an implementation 
>> project.
>>
>> I now have the ID-1 connected to a router.  With a Windows7 computer 
>> connected to the router, I can "ping 10.0.0.1" with average times 
>> between 110 and 120 ms.  Internet Explore does not connect to Bing, 
>> Google, nor ARRL.org and Packlink indicates that it cannot find a 
>> path to a Winlink CMS but somehow messages get to the CMS via telnet 
>> connection.
>>
>> Anyhow, at least for now, we have an alternate path to get emails out 
>> of Kirkland if we lose Internet at the City Hall.  I am changing the 
>> focus of high speed data transfer away from the ID-1 to HamWAN and 
>>  NW-MESH.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Bob -- KE7JL
>>
>>
>> *From:*PSDR [mailto:psdr-bounces at hamwan.org] *On Behalf Of *Dean 
>> Gibson AE7Q
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 26, 2014 9:01 AM
>> *To:* Puget Sound Data Ring
>> *Subject:* Re: [HamWAN PSDR] 1.2GHz to Paine [was: 44.x.x.x HamWAN 
>> network at Paine]
>>
>> Ah, I'd like the IP address you are PINGing.  What do you type after 
>> the command "ping"?
>>
>> On 2014-05-25 10:22, Bob wrote:
>>
>>     The router is setup as follows:
>>
>>     IP: 10.136.19.168
>>
>>     Sub Mask: 255.0.0.0
>>
>>     Gateway: 10.0.0.1
>>
>>     DNS: 10.0.0.2
>>
>>     Alt: 10.0.0.1
>>
>>     Bob
>>
>>     *From:*PSDR [mailto:psdr-bounces at hamwan.org] *On Behalf Of *Dean
>>     Gibson AE7Q
>>     *Sent:* Saturday, May 24, 2014 9:33 PM
>>     *To:* Puget Sound Data Ring
>>     *Subject:* Re: [HamWAN PSDR] 1.2GHz to Paine [was: 44.x.x.x
>>     HamWAN network at Paine]
>>
>>     When you attempt to ping using the K7LWH/DD module, what IP
>>     address do you specify?
>>
>>     On 2014-05-24 14:36, Bob wrote:
>>
>>         Dean,
>>
>>         Here are some observations and conclusion that I have come up
>>         with in adding the ID-1 to the Kirkland Emergency
>>         Communications Team's tool box.  I have done a number of
>>         tests of the ID-1 from various locations in Kirkland in both
>>         the Digital Data (DD) mode and the Digital Voice (DV) mode. 
>>         I tested simplex paths (ID-1 to ID-1) and paths to the Lake
>>         Washington Ham Club (LWHC) DSTAR DV repeater and DD gateway
>>         nodes in Bellevue.
>>
>>         1.There are a few locations in Kirkland that have direct
>>         visual line of site to LWHC Gateway in Belleview.  From those
>>         locations, pings are consistently returned in 100 to 200ms
>>         with an occasional loss.
>>
>>         2.We have two location (Stations 22 and 25) are not visual
>>         but according to Radio Mobile modeling skim the terrain.  At
>>         these sights no ping are returned.
>>
>>         3.At my home QTH (Lat: 47.694 Lon: -122.2161) I do not have a
>>         visual of the LWHC Gateway, but I get occasional pings returned.
>>
>>         4.John Hays loan me a 1.23 GHz directional antenna. With the
>>         directional antenna I detected two paths to the gateway.  One
>>         was off a condo about 180 degrees from the gateway about a
>>         mile away; the other was off the NOAA building four miles
>>         awat at Sand Point about 15 degrees clockwise from the
>>         gateway.  This indicates the presents of multi-paths that
>>         could be interfering with the data even with good signal
>>         strength.
>>
>>         5.I will also confirm the DV mode is more robust than the DD
>>         mode, but it too is affect by multi-path.
>>
>>         About 2 weeks ago I brought the ID-1 on line to serve as an
>>         alternate path to the Winlink CMS.
>>
>>         Bob -- KE7JL
>>
>>         *From:*PSDR [mailto:psdr-bounces at hamwan.org] *On Behalf Of
>>         *Dean Gibson AE7Q
>>         *Sent:* Saturday, May 24, 2014 10:20 AM
>>         *To:* Puget Sound Data Ring
>>         *Subject:* [HamWAN PSDR] 1.2GHz to Paine [was: 44.x.x.x
>>         HamWAN network at Paine]
>>
>>         Scott Honaker and I have moved forward on this project:
>>
>>          1. We have installed a gateway (Linksys BEFSR41) between the
>>             ID-1 and the internal ARES/RACES subnet (not 44.x.x.x) of
>>             the DEM.
>>          2. We have installed a Digi "AnywhereUSB" box to give us
>>             remote access to the ID-1's USB port, and thus remote
>>             control of the ID-1 radio.  This not only allows multiple
>>             use of the ID-1 (which has useful 1.2GHz FM and digital
>>             voice modes as well as Ethernet data), but provides for
>>             remote frequency agility and a diagnostic capability. 
>>             This works beautifully (eg, to search for and use a
>>             low-noise frequency)!
>>
>>         Unfortunately, what does not work very well, is the RF
>>         portion of the connection.  PINGs failed at a rate of over
>>         99% when using the 1.2GHz antenna at the 70 ft level on the
>>         tower, so we swapped the antenna with the one used for the
>>         Icom 1.2GHz repeater (which wasn't seeing any action anyway)
>>         at 100 ft.  That made a "dramatic" improvement, as PINGs now
>>         only fail at a 98% rate (depends upon the time of day, etc)!
>>
>>         Antenna comparison between 1.2GHz and 5.9 GHz for the two sites:
>>
>>          1. On 1.2GHz, both antennas are omni-directional.
>>          2. At the DEM, the 1.2GHz antenna is now at the 100' level,
>>             whereas the 5.9GHz antenna is at 150'.
>>          3. At my home, the 1.2GHz antenna is about 10' above the
>>             5.9GHz antenna, and it's on the same line-of-sight path.
>>
>>         Note that voice communication between the two sites using the
>>         two ID-1 radios, is fine (there is a slight bit of noise on FM).
>>
>>         The big difference, in my opinion?  I'll bet that the
>>         wireless protocol used by the MikroTik radios includes an
>>         aggressive error correction and retry protocol, whereas the
>>         ID-1 is like a piece of Ethernet cable, and thus relies on
>>         the standard TCP/IP retry mechanism.  The TCP/IP protocols,
>>         while "unreliable" in the technical sense of the term,
>>         require a higher overall reliability than a typical raw
>>         wireless connection.
>>
>>         What this says (and I'm a bit surprised to note this), is
>>         that sites considering using ID-1 radios for data
>>         communications, may find that even with the tighter siting
>>         requirements of 5.9GHz, that the latter may be more
>>         successful (whether or not part of HamWAN).  In addition to
>>         being a lower-cost radio with a much higher data rate, the
>>         MikroTik radios offer a built-in router, which can obviate
>>         the need for a separate router.
>>
>>         -- Dean
>>
>>         ps: The callsign and digital code filtering features of
>>         D-Star that we previously discussed, are not available
>>         (greyed out in the software) for digital *data* mode.  Huh?
>>         Another fine example of software of the "seven last words" of
>>         poor program design: *"Why would you want to do that?"*
>>
>>
>
>
>
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