[HamWAN PSDR] VOTE: 900MHz service experiment

Bart Kus me at bartk.us
Tue Mar 10 11:07:45 PDT 2015


Vote is approved.  Placing order.

--Bart


On 3/8/2015 10:26 PM, Bart Kus wrote:
> Looks like we did $143.25 in Jan and $732.95 in Feb.  There are 
> several non-recurring donations in Feb to help support Tukwila and 
> these other projects.  It looks like the Jan figure is a good estimate 
> of recurring monthly cash flow.
>
> At some point I also need to file a claim with Microsoft to match the 
> donations I've been making since we're a 501c3 now.  Any other folks 
> in a similar position should do the same.
>
> --Bart
>
>
> On 3/8/2015 8:48 PM, Ryan Elliott Turner wrote:
>> Before I vote, I'd like to learn more about our cashflows to ensure 
>> that the necessary credit could be promptly paid down.  How much in 
>> donations was received last month, and how much in donations was 
>> received in February and March of 2014? I don't want to spend more on 
>> this than we earn in a quarter.
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 10:32 PM, Nigel Vander Houwen 
>> <nigel at nigelvh.com <mailto:nigel at nigelvh.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     I agree with getting a long term antenna and one that continues
>>     our sectorized plan. YAY.
>>
>>     Nigel
>>
>>>     On Mar 8, 2015, at 12:30, Bart Kus <me at bartk.us
>>>     <mailto:me at bartk.us>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     I didn't go, nor would I trust HamWAN money to sketchy antennas.
>>>
>>>     I purchased the 3 modems recently approved (1 replacement 5GHz
>>>     and the 2 900MHz modems) and saved money by combining shipping. 
>>>     There is $118.12 left in approved funds to get a 900MHz antenna
>>>     solution.  Baltic is asking for *$204.59 to make the OD9-8
>>>     antenna happen* (shipping included).  Laird's lower gain
>>>     antennas also have crazy high shipping costs, and they quickly
>>>     approach isotropic gain.  I don't think it's a good idea to
>>>     spend $125 on shipping for what was supposed to be a low cost /
>>>     low performance test antenna.  Longer-term, we would very likely
>>>     employ a cross polarized MIMO system since bandwidth @ 900MHz is
>>>     very limited and it's therefore important to maximize bit/Hz. 
>>>     There is only one antenna on the market that I'm aware of that
>>>     fits the bill: Ubiquiti AM-9M13. It's a 13dBi 120 degree dual
>>>     polarity sector.  I'm pretty sure they add the dBi from H+V
>>>     polarizations to arrive at 13dBi, so it's probably 10dBi /
>>>     polarization. Still, 2dB better than the 8dBi OD9-8. This
>>>     antenna is physically smaller, so the shipping is much cheaper.
>>>     *It costs $278.36 shipped*.  We'll also need a pigtail cable to
>>>     adapt from the RP-SMA terminals on the antenna to the N-male on
>>>     the modem.
>>>
>>>     Now, there are a couple advantages to going this route:
>>>
>>>     1) We can re-use this antenna if we do deploy a 900MHz service
>>>     since it's the only one I'm aware of that fits the bill.
>>>     2) The experimental phase can test both vertical and horizontal
>>>     polarity performance independently by simply switching a cable.
>>>
>>>     So here's the modification:
>>>
>>>     1x Credit from removing OD9-8 = ($118.12)
>>>     1x Ubiquiti AM-9M13 @ $252.00/ea = $252.00
>>>     1x RP-SMA to N patch cable (1m) @ $9.95/ea = $9.95
>>>     1x NF-NF barrel adapter @ $4.25/ea = $4.25
>>>     1x Shipping @ $36.60 = $36.60
>>>
>>>     *Total additional funds requested: **$184.68*
>>>
>>>     If we don't end up doing a 900MHz service, or it doesn't use
>>>     these components, we'll return or eBay the parts and credit the
>>>     HamWAN balance.
>>>
>>>     --Bart
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     On 3/6/2015 7:59 PM, Tom Hayward wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Try the swap meet tomorrow?
>>>>
>>>>     On Mar 6, 2015 7:55 PM, "Bart Kus" <me at bartk.us
>>>>     <mailto:me at bartk.us>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         Turns out the shipping on that 8dBi vertical is $125.
>>>>
>>>>         I'm open to suggestions at this point.
>>>>
>>>>         --Bart
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         On 3/6/2015 11:23 AM, Bart Kus wrote:
>>>>>         I just sent you all the relevant invoices.
>>>>>
>>>>>         Thanks, board!  I guess I'm placing all the orders now.
>>>>>
>>>>>         --Bart
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         On 3/6/2015 11:19 AM, Cory (NQ1E) wrote:
>>>>>>         Bart,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         I also vote YAY on the contingency that you get caught up
>>>>>>         on the paperwork.  I still don't have the invoices on
>>>>>>         file from your last two purchases. ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         That makes it unanimous, so I guess the voting is complete.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         -Cory
>>>>>>         NQ1E
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Ryan Elliott Turner
>>>>>>         <ryan.e.t at gmail.com <mailto:ryan.e.t at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             Thanks, Bart. I vote yay.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 12:47 PM, gary.k7ek at yahoo.com
>>>>>>             <mailto:gary.k7ek at yahoo.com> <gary.k7ek at yahoo.com
>>>>>>             <mailto:gary.k7ek at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 I'd be interested in experimenting with 900 mhz
>>>>>>                 gear at my Spanaway residence, and possibly at my
>>>>>>                 Graham Hill repeater site. I believe 900 mhz
>>>>>>                 would provide better overall results than 5 Ghz,
>>>>>>                 which proved to be marginal to barely usable
>>>>>>                 during our recent site survey.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Best regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Gary, K7EK
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 ----- Reply message -----
>>>>>>                 From: "Bart Kus" <me at bartk.us <mailto:me at bartk.us>>
>>>>>>                 To: "Puget Sound Data Ring" <psdr at hamwan.org
>>>>>>                 <mailto:psdr at hamwan.org>>
>>>>>>                 Subject: [HamWAN PSDR] VOTE: 900MHz service
>>>>>>                 experiment
>>>>>>                 Date: Fri, Mar 6, 2015 10:38
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 5.9GHz is awesome when it works.  The speeds are great, and it carries
>>>>>>                 as far as the eye can see with very low ambient noise floor.  It does
>>>>>>                 however have problems when it needs to penetrate trees and buildings.
>>>>>>                 To alleviate this, I'd like HamWAN to offer a slower but deeper
>>>>>>                 penetrating 900MHz service.  900MHz is the lowest frequency ham band
>>>>>>                 without bandwidth or modulation rate restrictions.  Before we deploy a
>>>>>>                 full cell site, I'd like to get some real-world experience with 900MHz
>>>>>>                 penetration, propagation and ambient noise conditions.  Here's the
>>>>>>                 cheapest appropriate hardware we can use for this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 1x Vpol omni antenna @ $79.50/ea = $79.50
>>>>>>                 (http://www.balticnetworks.com/laird-antenna-omni-8dbi-900mhz-n-female-integrated.html)
>>>>>>                 2x 9HPn modem @ $108.00/ea = $216.00
>>>>>>                 (http://www.balticnetworks.com/mikrotik-metal-9hpn.html)
>>>>>>                 1x Shipping @ $UNKNOWN (quote not showing?!  Need to call them.) =
>>>>>>                 $40.00 ???
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Total: $335.50
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 I already have a 900MHz high gain Yagi-Uda in my inventory and can use
>>>>>>                 that to do various field tests.  These can be directly compared against
>>>>>>                 5.9GHz performance since the gear will be deployed to one of our
>>>>>>                 existing 5.9GHz cell sites.  The results of such comparisons will give
>>>>>>                 us a good idea of how well 900MHz might do for HamWAN.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Disclaimer: These may not be the right modems or antennas for us
>>>>>>                 long-term.  A real deployment might use Ubiquiti Rocket M900 with their
>>>>>>                 sector antennas.  These Ubiquiti items are far more expensive though,
>>>>>>                 and their software doesn't integrate as easily into our network, so for
>>>>>>                 the purposes of the test I believe the set of hardware I proposed will
>>>>>>                 do well at deploying fast and keeping costs down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 NOTE: If both the votes are approved, I will combine shipping from
>>>>>>                 Baltic to save money.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 --Bart
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>>>>                 PSDR mailing list
>>>>>>                 PSDR at hamwan.org  <mailto:PSDR at hamwan.org>
>>>>>>                 http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>>>>                 PSDR mailing list
>>>>>>                 PSDR at hamwan.org <mailto:PSDR at hamwan.org>
>>>>>>                 http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             -- 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             Ryan Turner
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>>>>             PSDR mailing list
>>>>>>             PSDR at hamwan.org <mailto:PSDR at hamwan.org>
>>>>>>             http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>>>         PSDR mailing list
>>>>>>         PSDR at hamwan.org  <mailto:PSDR at hamwan.org>
>>>>>>         http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>>         PSDR mailing list
>>>>>         PSDR at hamwan.org  <mailto:PSDR at hamwan.org>
>>>>>         http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>         PSDR mailing list
>>>>         PSDR at hamwan.org <mailto:PSDR at hamwan.org>
>>>>         http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     _______________________________________________
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>>>>     http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     PSDR mailing list
>>>     PSDR at hamwan.org <mailto:PSDR at hamwan.org>
>>>     http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
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>>     http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Ryan Turner
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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